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 The influence of preliminary period in handgonne shooting

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Spiridonov
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Messages : 32
Date d'inscription : 29/04/2010
Localisation : Russia

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MessageSujet: The influence of preliminary period in handgonne shooting   The influence of preliminary period in handgonne shooting Icon_minitimeJeu 20 Jan 2011 - 22:24

Hi all! I want to share my theory about Internal ballistic effect named preliminary period
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13209
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L'arbalestrier
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MessageSujet: Re: The influence of preliminary period in handgonne shooting   The influence of preliminary period in handgonne shooting Icon_minitimeVen 21 Jan 2011 - 18:52

(Sorry it's a google translation !)

Thank you for sharing this cheers
You do a superb job and your demonstration is very convincing !
You making yourself your powder, awesome! Shocked
But you can not Contol firing!
It's not embarrassing ? scratch

It is also conceivable that in some images, shooting methods (serpentin. ..) are not represented due to... top secret.
There, it seems a theory as to the mechanisms of muskets in the table of "Nightwatching" (17th) by Rembrandt, supposedly paint upside (check)!
For the fifteenth century we find the notion of secret in the Swiss militia, who must swear not to reveal the techniques of shooting and do not use them against their own city.


Merci pour ce partage !
Tu a fais un superbe travail et ta démonstration est trés convaincante !
Tu fabriques toi même ta poudre, impressionnant !!!
Par contre l'inconvénient c'est que tu ne contôles pas la mise à feu !
Ce n'est pas gênant ?

On peu aussi envisager que dans certaines images, les méthodes de tir (serpentin...) ne sont pas représentés pour cause de... secret.
Il y a, paraît-il une théorie comme cela avec les mécanismes des arquebuses dans le tableau de "la ronde de nuit" (17e) de Rembrandt, soit disant peintent à l'envers (à vérifier) !
Pour le XVe siècle on retrouve la notion de secret chez les miliciens Suisses, qui doivent jurer de ne pas révéler les techniques de tir et ne pas les utiliser contre leur propre cité.


Ps : Si quelqu'un maitrisant parfaitement l'anglais pouvait traduire...

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« C'est le groupe qui écrit l'histoire mais l'individu qui la lit. » Adonis
The influence of preliminary period in handgonne shooting Bandos10
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MessageSujet: Re: The influence of preliminary period in handgonne shooting   The influence of preliminary period in handgonne shooting Icon_minitimeSam 22 Jan 2011 - 23:11

My English is too bad. That is why i have made mistake. I have written "pre-corned powder" but it would be better to call not granulated powder as Serpentine powder (I mean dry mix). Sorry i don't know all English terminology
Citation :
There, it seems a theory as to the mechanisms of muskets in the table of "Nightwatching" (17th) by Rembrandt, supposedly paint upside (check)!
Thank you for comment.
I am sure that mechanisms of muskets was not secret in XVII century Smile Serpentines was not a secret in XV century too
Citation :
You making yourself your powder, awesome!
It is not too hard :-) I can find all ingredients in a chemistry shop. And I can made my own coal. I didn't use electric mill but I use a hand pounder. I make about 10g in a 8 minutes
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MessageSujet: Re: The influence of preliminary period in handgonne shooting   The influence of preliminary period in handgonne shooting Icon_minitimeDim 23 Jan 2011 - 19:54

Citation :
I have written "pre-corned powder" but it would be better to call not granulated powder as Serpentine powder (I mean dry mix).


I understood like that!
Because my english is bad too !

lol!

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« C'est le groupe qui écrit l'histoire mais l'individu qui la lit. » Adonis
The influence of preliminary period in handgonne shooting Bandos10
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http://mesnie-st-andre-1470.xooit.fr/
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MessageSujet: Re: The influence of preliminary period in handgonne shooting   The influence of preliminary period in handgonne shooting Icon_minitimeLun 24 Jan 2011 - 12:11

Citation :
Thank you for comment.
I am sure that mechanisms of muskets was not secret in XVII century

yes of course! But all, perhaps did not even efficacity and robustness. no ?


Citation :
Serpentines was not a secret in XV century too

Im not sure. Yes serpentine was not a secret
There were few types of serpentine (macthlock...), and techniques of shooting. From the simplest to the most complicated ...
The longest to the fastest...


Also, Why write in Swiss ordonnance "must swear not to reveal the techniques of shooting and do not use them against their own city" ?



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« C'est le groupe qui écrit l'histoire mais l'individu qui la lit. » Adonis
The influence of preliminary period in handgonne shooting Bandos10
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http://mesnie-st-andre-1470.xooit.fr/
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MessageSujet: Re: The influence of preliminary period in handgonne shooting   The influence of preliminary period in handgonne shooting Icon_minitimeLun 24 Jan 2011 - 13:02

Citation :
From the simplest to the most complicated
What types of "most complicated" do you mean?
Citation :
Also, Why write in Swiss ordonnance "must swear not to reveal the techniques of shooting and do not use them against their own city" ?
We don'k know what is the secret. May be it is a way of loading or somthing else. We never will know it.
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MessageSujet: Re: The influence of preliminary period in handgonne shooting   The influence of preliminary period in handgonne shooting Icon_minitimeLun 24 Jan 2011 - 14:01

Citation :
What types of "most complicated" do you mean?

I think:
Serpentine lock or not.
Serpentine lock without spring or spring (snapping matchlocks ?).
Serpentine lock with spring inside or outside the stock.
Serpentine lock, passing through the stock or not
Trigger with a button or lever.
....

Citation :
We don'k know what is the secret. May be it is a way of loading or somthing else. We never will know it.

yes, just speculation. This suggests that, there is a "whiff of secrecy" around this type of weapon.


Citation :
I have written "pre-corned powder" but it would be better to call not granulated powder as Serpentine powder (I mean dry mix)...
It is not too hard :-) I can find all ingredients in a chemistry shop. And I can made my own coal. I didn't use electric mill but I use a hand pounder. I make about 10g in a 8 minutes

I must try one day! drunken
Have you ever tried the wet method (granulated powder)?

Citation :
I can made my own coal
Shocked
you use the willow charcoal ?


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L'arbalestrier

« C'est le groupe qui écrit l'histoire mais l'individu qui la lit. » Adonis
The influence of preliminary period in handgonne shooting Bandos10
http://www.ostdudauphin.fr/
http://mesnie-st-andre-1470.xooit.fr/
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Date d'inscription : 29/04/2010
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MessageSujet: Re: The influence of preliminary period in handgonne shooting   The influence of preliminary period in handgonne shooting Icon_minitimeLun 24 Jan 2011 - 14:17

Citation :
I think:
Serpentine lock without spring or spring (snapping matchlocks ?).
Serpentine lock with spring inside or outside the stock.
Serpentine lock, passing through the stock or not
Trigger with a button or lever.
It is common mith but there are no historical sources for button locks fot XV century
Citation :
Have you ever tried the wet method (granulated powder)?
Yes, I have
Citation :
you use the willow charcoal ?
Usually I use birch charcoal
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MessageSujet: Re: The influence of preliminary period in handgonne shooting   The influence of preliminary period in handgonne shooting Icon_minitimeMar 22 Mar 2011 - 14:53

this confirms your theory!

http://www.tforum.info/
The influence of preliminary period in handgonne shooting Mechel11
Siège, italie XVe

1 = mise à feu / firing EDIT ignition moment
2= visée / aim for

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« C'est le groupe qui écrit l'histoire mais l'individu qui la lit. » Adonis
The influence of preliminary period in handgonne shooting Bandos10
http://www.ostdudauphin.fr/
http://mesnie-st-andre-1470.xooit.fr/


Dernière édition par L'arbalestrier le Mar 22 Mar 2011 - 20:29, édité 1 fois
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MessageSujet: Re: The influence of preliminary period in handgonne shooting   The influence of preliminary period in handgonne shooting Icon_minitimeMar 22 Mar 2011 - 20:04

1 - probably ignition moment
2 - is the preliminary period, I think. we can see flame on the touch hole before handgonne shoot.
Best wishes, Alexander.
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